[WesternEuropeanUSA]

Agreed. We’re aligned, @AeonKnight.

And while you’ve done well to outline the logical boundaries / impasses in this whole mess of hermit-crabbing and grafting oneself into the story of a foreign neighboring religion, I’ll further my elaboration on the mechanisms of conversion and retention.

In short, it’s an attempt to checkmate loyalty and it works. It taps into it and transfers it away from the family. And if pursuit of the grand promise ever fails to motivate them the fear of endless torture looms large.

While those sorts of pressures and motivations exist outside Christianity Christianity uses them destructively in a precise way. A surgical attack, if you will.

It attacks the ability to question the initial assumption (Jesus & atonement). It means you can’t go back. Unbelieving it is costly. So, Christian claims of being honest interlocutors is deception, be it intentional or not. For them talking with critics is a game of, “watch how closely I can approach the edge of the cliff and not jump or fall off.”

Moreover, they can’t admit they cannot go back because the benefits of proclaiming loyalty are predicated upon having a choice. More temptations mean more blessings if you just choose to recommit to Jesus. The more you hammer home to “God” and to your cohort your belief in the installed axiom of Jesus the more you demonstrate loyalty and the more reward you get.

Now because they are taught that all good comes from this axiom, Jesus, they are also making a pragmatic choice. They connect good outcomes with their faith in Jesus, not understanding those blessings aren’t from Jesus but from everything but Jesus and existed before Jesus was installed, i.e. family and native European traditions. And we know where the tap feeds to because we see it right in front of us, subsequently a portion of the profits are put back into their pockets. Subversion. Banking.

If they only knew they could have it all and more without the installed axiom and tap that is the proxy / misdirection of Jesus.

There are other ways of explaining conversion and retention but I think this way works pretty well.

It doesn’t matter what you say if the other person isn’t really listening.

[WesternEuropeanUSA]

@AeonKnight

I’m chiming in to support what you’re laying out and appreciate you taking the time to do so.

A quick comment to my Christian brothers: Christinity is not harder to practice nor more moral in any way to native European beliefs. It might be interesting to talk about why.

Unfortunately, Christians are perceived by many to hold their beliefs arrogantly not humbly as they might wish to be perceived. Humility is willingness to be wrong about something, in this case about Jesus, but that’s not within the possibilities of Christian humility.

Another comment, please note those who _fell_ from Christianity are different from those who were horrified to uncover its deep risks to our survival and reject it on principle. You’ll encounter both. One might still be an angry/scared/weak/degenerate Christian at heart and should not to be confused with a grounded objective truth seeker who lands on reconstructing native European values and traditions to reestablish strength in our people.

Brothers do not get frustrated. This bridge is hard to cross.

Any loss of temper or quick dismissal is perceived as failure. But you know that.

Christians have the pleasure of walking with an unquestioning aura of belief in Jesus as their savior from hell and redeemer toward exhalation in a postmortal life that they hypothesize about to the point of it being palpable. @AeonKnight, you know this. You have to. But I understand where your frustration comes from when your pearls of wisdom are lazily dismissed. It summarizes much of the Christian box.

There is a pragmatic element to believing in Christianity as they are seeing benefits of it in their lives regularly. The problem is the standard for Christianity is to remain sufficiently better than the nihilistic degenerate world they perceive as the only other alternative. False choice fallacy all day everyday leading to moral relativism (just be better than those sinners) and inability to _honestly_ explore the elephant in the room, i.e. what our ancestors were doing before Christianty was foisted upon them, not with love but by threat and deception.

I don’t mean to be patronizing or condescending to @adsman by saying the above. I’m appealing to the sensibilities of @AeonKnight with whom I vehemently agree and noting the lack of consideration his messages were given; thoughtful and given with love but treated as hogwash because you didn’t get it, at least I believe that to be the case. You don’t feel the need to make the effort. You don’t see the reward.

I’ll make a claim:

Either group feels the other is clearly and blatantly misled. All things being equal (though we know they are not) the win goes to those who have questioned Christianity in an honest and sincere way. This because they actually gave themselves a chance to choose. Open-mindedness to anti-Christan ideas is something Christians have been innoculated against. It’s just “anti-Christian,” and besides all truth starts with Jesus. Something different is too foreign.

@adsman, I hope you can admit how much more personally, mentally and socially difficult it is to denounce Jesus than, say, Odin.

Christins feel that they are combating the temptations of the world by holding true and making that sacrifice of going to church and paying tithes, etc. But brothers I tell you what, if my beliefs had a fraction of the social rewards of Christianity I’d be jumping for joy at going to church and tearing up as I pay my share. From my perspective you are heavily heavily rewarded for attending church and believing in Jesus and announcing it regularly. If it weren’t for the fact that Christianity doesn’t actually deliver salvation rather extermination it’d be pretty good. Absolutely zero sarcasm.

Nobody in your life cares about Odin or native European religion. They know more about the history of the Jews and the middle East. There aren’t any consequences to rejecting those old European ideas. You nor any of your friends nor family have publicly committed to, say, Odin or Thor, but you have sure bet your entire reputation on Jesus and your Christian beliefs. You’ve announced the categorical unalterable truth that Jesus is your savior. You boxed yourself in and it takes a big man to get out of that if you had such an inkling.

In Christianity the social pressures to maintain the faith are immense to the point of one’s mind preemptively denying anything that would shake its foundations. This blocker is real. It’s antithetical to knowledge and truth and it exists I’m spades and permeates Christiandom… yet it virtually doesn’t exist in the lives of those who look to our native traditions. In fact it’s the opposite. You get instant love and community by running into the arms of the Christian faith. In that way Christianity has become our tribes’ defacto religion.

Thankfully, Christianity still naively preserves many old pre-Christan traditions but that’s a discussion for another time (i.e. to what degree are you still just being “pagan” but take it to be Christian).

That social pressure to adhere along with the ability to fall back into loving arms accounts for much of why people adhere to any Abrahamic religion. Meanwhile, traditional European beliefs have no such sway (but they used to).

“Pagan” and “heathen” are akin to the “Nazi white supremacist” deterring insult you and your parents once succumbed to and were instilled in a similar way. It produces an immediate disgust response in you that is interpreted as the guidance of the Holy Spirit confirming its falsehood.

So yeah, tough bridge to cross.

I’m being frank. There isn’t negative energy. Please just take it as me sharing my side (I’ve been on both) to move the discussion forward.

As for me, my religion is my people. It’s you guys.

If any belief is placed above our long-term physical survival then it’s against my religion… and for Christianity to work it means that we all fail but get saved last minute. I hope you see the danger in that and why it has many of us concerned.

With love brothers. We’re in this together.

[WesternEuropeanUSA]

Great post. More like this!

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